Beiträge von Aabenraaer

Hi Michael

I also do not know whether the 16 sk 1857 was sold in Friedrichstadt, but - as Nordlicht mentions - the key point is, that this stamp indeed was valid for usage in Friedrichstadt.

The numeral "21" was later reused for Frederikssund Railway, but that was not until 1879. Denmark changed currency from skilling to øre in 1875 and therefore your stamp must be from before 1875, ergo from Friedrichstadt.

I assume the "2" in "21" on your stamp, has a wavy footline - while the 21 Frederikssund mark was engraved with a straight footline.

Typically were 2,8 and 16 sk used in the larger cities (mostly Copenhagen), but from time to time, they found their way to the smaller post offices, as your stamp is a fine example of.

Cheers

Ole

Hi Dieter

Thanks!!! I hadn't seen the second one before, either.

Cheers Ole

Hi Dieter

I am very interested in seeing that - I have gone though my "library" and couldn't find any mentions on that.

Cheers

Ole

Hi Dieter

I have seen Pfennige with 3-ring "1" cancellations, but thought it was a cancellation that resembled the CPH strike or a forgery. Thanks for clarifying the background I'll definitely want such a thing in my collection😊

I don't think Ive seen a Brustschild though - sounds like quite a rarity.

Cheers Ole

Hejsa

I was not aware it's from Kurt Hansen's collection - nice detail I bought on Valby Frim auction a few years ago..

Fascinating practice, with delivering letters directly to the ship's letterbox.

I have a 4sk with box canc "Aus ... pr Dampfschiff" - was this cancellation used in the same scenario, where the letter was delivered directly on the pier ?

Cheers Ole

Cover from "Kruger, Kiel", sent to Lemkenhafen (Fehmern). Inside dated Kiel, June 1863. Endorsed "Zephyr" in red crayon. I assume the stamp was cancelled on arrival in Burg.

Also, I found a picture of Zephyr

Cheers, Ole

Hi Nordlicht

Very, very interesting info you provided in the conversation (and most sorry I didn't see your message before now!)

It can be concluded, that the Visby archive is mentioned by name as early as 1959. And Arnholtz more than indicates, that usage of the four non-SKJBK SH-ESRs has been known, at least since the 1940's - and so, also the finding of the archive.

Funny detail, that the ESR-ABILD stamp was considered genuine back then.

So I basically see two possible scenarios:

1. Höyberg sold the archive himself, before his death in 1919.

2. The archive was sold after his death between 1919 and the 1940's.

As of now, I would guess option 1, based on the actual content is generally removed, leaving only the letter fronts.

It's fair to assume that the archive has been quite fragmented over time.

Still to my knowledge, is the 128th auction the largest single-outlet of Visby material - and therefore possibly also the largest and most representative "set of data", to say something about the statistical distribution of covers/singles/skilling/SH.

One of the aspects of the Visby archives that intrigues me the most, is what it contained.

I have never found any indications that there should exist a full inventory list of the archive, so we'll probably never know better, than an approximation.

Could I ask you to count the number of Visby-related Skilling issues and the number of SH-issues offered in the 128th catalogue? Any addressed to "Visby Hedegaard" instead of "Visby Mølle"?

Cheers, Ole

Hi Nordlicht

I agree - I would have expected an ink cancellation when normal equipment was unavailable. The stamp also demonstrates, that ink cancelling was indeed known/used - but apparently not always first choice..

Half of the known Roststempeln on dk skilling sounds "Railway-ish" and the other half are from larger cities with railway stations. Possibly some kind of exceptional designated use for Holstein Eisenbahn mail, rather than emergency usage? If that's the case, maybe there could exist blue 2sk with Roststempel😊

When you have the stamp at hand, under a magnifying glass, it's actually not too difficult to identify the postmark. Still, the almost greyish ink is so vague on the brown background, that I can't get my scanner to catch much more than the stripes in the margen...

Cheers
Ole

Here's a Fire RBS Thiele I with a weak impression of Roststempel 39 (Holstein Eisenbahn) - which is probably why it's also cancelled with an ink-cross.

According to cert. Vagn Jensen it's plate I, position 1 (so-called "hakmærke") - I think this is not too obvious due to the ink from the postmark, but then again, I am far from being an expert in the plating of Fire RBS.

The brass Roststempeln were generally thought of being of poor quality, which this cancellation certainly indicates

Cheers Ole

Hi nordlicht

Yes, Visby philately is indeed a very narrow corner. When I started drilling down into it, I found the topic quite fascinating, with a lot of unknown circumstances to be discovered - or rediscovered.

It's interesting information that you have. Though I have not found the auction catalogue yet, I am informed that particularly Thomas Hoiland's 128th auction had many Visby objects on. The auction was in November 2008, which matches with your observations.

It's very interesting that you mention the NFT articles - I will definitely have to find those too. Do you remember whether they are about Esrom-cancellations in general or also mention any from the Sønderjylland area? My point is, that if e.g. BBRO (Bredebro) was mentioned in the 1949 article and if it's assumed that the BBRO, DSTRP, REISB and BRNS-strikes are only known from the mill's archive, then it can be concluded that the finding of the archive predates 1949.

Good idea about contacting the Postal History Society. If I find out anything new, I will update in this thread.

Since I wrote the original post I have acquired the attached coverfront sent to Höyberg (check spelling:-). It's unusual in the way, that it's franked with Fire RBS (Thiele III printing, 1854), where most Visby fronts I know, are franked with 4 sk. 1858 or 1863 issues. In some cases, I have also seen 4 skilling 1854 or the SH issues (Have attached a SKJBK on SH, though it can not be confirmed to originate from the mill's archive).

Cheers,

Ole

Hallo Leute!

This post is about danish skilling issues on letters sent to Visby. Similar letters also exist with the SH stamps.

Some SH collectors may have stumbled on these kind of objects. They are distinct in the way, that they are usually only coverfronts and addressed to Frederik Höyberg, Visby Mølle and in a few cases to Frederik Höyberg, Visby Hedegaard.

Höyberg was a miller and all these coverfronts originates from what I presume is the mill's business archive. This could at least explain why only the coverfronts are existing, while the business contents has been removed.

The archive contained letters from nearby small villages (on the Tønder - Ribe mail route) and to my knowledge there are a few postmarks which are only known to originate from the Visby Mølle archive. These include the so-called Esrom-type postmarks, with three rings and a village abbreviation: DSTRP(Døstrup), REISB (Reisby), BBRO (Bredebro), BRNS (Brøns). Other quite rare postmarks from the archive are SKJBK (Skjærbæk) and numeral 161 (Ballum), though these are known from sources other than the Visby Mølle archive. The archive also contained more common postmarks, e.g. from Tønder.

I have not been able to find out much information on the discovery of the archive. I know that Danish auction houses has sold a few of these, and sometimes several objects on the same auction.

I wonder if anyone knows any details on the circumstances of the finding ? And for how long objects from the archive has been around on the market ?
For instance, have you seen references to these coverfronts in philatelistic articles or auctions that predates 1970 - or even 1930 ?

Here are some examples from my collection. I do not have any Esrom-types in my collection except SKJBK and would be very interested in seeing such.

(1) Numeral 73 - Tønder
(2) Numeral 161 - Ballum
(3) Esrom-type SKJBK - Skjærbæk.
(4) Letter, inside-dated Visby Mølle. Only few franked covers are known from Briefsammlungsstelle Visby Mølle. The content does not indicate any relation to Höyberg.

Cheers Ole

Hi Sylvain, Rob and Laurent !

Thank you very much!

As the posts' date&time painfully clearly reveals, I haven't been too great a keeping myself updated here - I blame it on the very fine weather

I fully agree with you. I think the level of expertise and dedication found on this forum is impressive. People say, that any topic can be interesting if one drills deeply enough into it. I find this very true, after reading threads on this here forum, which are off-topic wrt to my collection. I am sadly limited by both time and wealth

Cheers Ole

Mojn

I re-read your first post and I misunderstood first time. I automatically assumed these letters were free of charge - quite surprising, yes. Thanks for correcting this.

That is a very attractive and interesting cover that you present. The feldpost numerals on cover are difficult to find these days! Was is transported on the Sønderborg-Korsør route ?

Cheers
Ole

Mojn

Checked my sources, and found that a major reason why the sailing route sometimes was changed from Korsør-Sønderborg to Korsør-Høruphav, was that the Prussian artilley at the Gammelmark battery, was able to reach both Sønderborg city and the harbor (appr. 4 km distance). In Høruphav pontoon bridges were setup in the harbour to accommodate the increased traffic of Danish cavalry, artillery, civilian passengers and goods. Supposedly there were at lot of problems with stolen cargo in Høruphav, as people regarded non-guarded cargo at the harbor as "belonging to everyone".

The attached map gives an impression of the geography and locations of the battery, Sønderborg and Høruphav.

Cheers
Ole

Mojn

With the possible connections you describe, I would also say that the land route sounds most probable. Btw I've been wondering about the connections between Fyn and Sjælland. I mean, I assume there was a fairly busy ship traffic on a daily basis, but do you know if transporting mail between the two islands was, more or less, just a matter of waiting an hour for the next boat or if it was a severe point of delay on the route ?

Cheers
Ole

Mojn Nordlicht

Thanks for your elaborate answer and (again!) providing a wealth of facts and details, which I've not been able to uncover myself - highly appreciated!!

About the military letter's 6 skilling endorsement.. I'm surprised as well. I haven't explored this area too much, but my general understanding is, that unfranked letters were normally "penalized" with +2 skilling in addition to the normal 4 sk. rate -while Feldpost was free of charge for sender and receiver. If it's not simply an error by someone in the mail-expedition, then I have no good explanation for this...

Being an SH collector with a passion for numerals, I regard a cover with 230 Høruphav as the "holy grail" (well... contested by a 214 Pellworm cover ). I'm a keen admirer of DKKW's excellent thread on numerals (dk-sh numeral collectors are well-equipped with the ArGeSH catalogue + that thread bookmarked!) and long before I became a member of this board, I have been wanting to ask, if someone has a picture of such as 230 cover to upload to the forum. DKKW makes a mention of two of such covers - my guess is, that there are very few, if any, besides those two in existence.

Cheers
Ole

Mojn mojn

Very interesting thread - I hope it is ok to "wake" it again, though some years old.
I present here three items from my collection with association to the 1864 war.

Pictures 1,2,3
First is a letter, inside dated Høruphav June 1st, 1864, and arrival mark on backside from June 2nd and Dampschiff marks on the front. According to my notes the ship connection was sailing Korsør-Kiel originally, but as the war progressed, changed to Sønderborg - Korsør and sometimes Høruphav - Korsør.

Picture 4
Two weeks later on June 16th, Høruphav got their designated 230 cancellation, though it was only valid in Danish era until June 29th, where the post master in the governing Sønderborg office was kicked out.

Pictures 5
The military letter is from a landmark date in Danish history, sent on April 18th, 1864, from Guderup on the isle of Als. The date marks the day the Prussian army commenced the attack on Dybbøl. Arrival mark on back from April 20th.

Btw, I have found it difficult in later years to find good 1864 war-material ' - maybe the fairly recent 150-years anniversary sparked an interest that emptied the market.

Cheers
Ole

Hi Nordlicht

I have also been wondering how that was possible - it is even inside dated on June 29th.

The backside has no transit marks or anything else, besides the Copenhagen arrival mark from June 29th (weak strike, but just enough to be readable). Could they have used the relatively nearby Aarøsund - Fyn (Assens?) connection, which was used in the Danish skilling era ?

Cheers
Ole

Mojn Nordlicht

I reached the same conclusion and I am happy that you did too, which gives me assurance. I was thinking that, the logical reason for the date is missing, need not be more mysterious than, as the cancellor's date digits can be changed, then they can probably also be set in an idle/blank position to produce a "clean" square strike.

Cheers
Ole

Hallo folkens

I just acquired this 4 RBS Thiele II with Altona cancellation. It has certificates from Lasse Nielsen and Carl Aage Møller, but neither describes further about the strike, other than it's a "rammestempel". I checked in my literature, but all listed rectangular-ish strikes from Altona seems to also have a date inside - this one does not - I cant even spot any ink remains, from what could have been a worn-out date mark. The stamp was issued in 1853, so the strike is probably from 1853 or 1854.

I would be happy if anyone could help to identify this.
Cheers

Ole