Beiträge von robfaux

Double Letter Rate
10 cents per 10 grams

Jul 1, 1865 - Dec 14, 1873

Rotterdam Sep 15 1867
Pays-Bas Par Anvers Sep 15 (verso)

Just another fairly simple example in my collection as I learn European mails.

The second cover I show my fancy INVERTED cover. Ok, I just put in the scanner the wrong way.

Border Rate
5 cents per 10 grams

Maastricht Mar 16 1867
Hollande Par Liege Mar 16 (verso)
Liege Mar 16, 67 (verso)
85 (verso)

distance approx 30 km

Does anyone know what the "85" means on this one?

Best,
Rob

Route:
Rotterdam Jan 15, 1872
Emmerich - Basel (most likely)
Aarau Jan 16 72 (verso)
Reinach Jan 17 72 (verso)

the via Germany rate:
15 cents per 15 grams : Sep 1, 1868 - Jun 30, 1875

It isn't a particularly wonderful item, but it shows the basic rate for the period and is clean. So, I like it.

Rob

Lulu,

Thank you very much!
It all makes much more sense now.

So, the postal authorities were lenient with actual distance in certain cases? You are correct, the distance of that last may not be enough to make a difference.

I did a web search for that title and found it available in an auction, it may be the same one you are referencing.

Here is one more showing the longer distance in 1855.

Rob

Ooooooh!

Ok, it is not a linear progression of 10 ct/ 10 g. Now it makes much more sense. thank you. I have better understanding of rates for France and I should have thought it was more like that rate structure.

So, here is another. It is from Charleroi to Namur, distance 34 km direct. May 19, 1863.
This is why I think there must have been a change in rates in 1861 or 1862.

Does the next page of that book have that information.

I shall have to find that book someday.

Rob

Lulu,
Thank you.

Below is an example of the few that I have. Sent from Mettet on Dec 16, 1854 and received at Charleroi Dec 17. 40 centimes applies. I would think this would be the short distance rate of 10 ct / 10 g, but I can not quite believe it would be a 30-40 g item. I don't see evidence of enclosure beyond the folded letter. but, there could have been, I suppose.

Best to all,
Rob

I didn't even see that! Good idea....
R

Zitat von bayern klassisch

Hello Rob

nice one, but even nicer if you fold back the upper left corner of the right stamp.

Hallo Michael,

The blue notes are Prussian notes, I agree with you.
2f - zweifach (double rate)
24/4 (silbergroschen)

24 sgr - international

4 sgr - internal

The 112 kopecks must include the Russian surface mail as well. thus 112 kopecks.

I will try to find my notes on this so I can give more detail. but, it might be a while before I can do it.

Most U.S. Conventions during the 1860's had the stipulation that any mail that is short paid should be treated as unpaid. Any postage on the envelope would then be useless and not counted. that is what happened with this cover. They paid a single letter rate, but it weighed more than 1/2 ounce, so it was treated as unpaid.
Some conventions had two rates, one for prepaid and one for unpaid. But, on the US side, most were the same rate. Exception would be Prussian convention where it was 28 cents US paid and 30 cents US unpaid to German-Austrian Postal Union. Without my notes, I do not recall if Russia's rate would differ paid/unpaid.

Thank you for the conversation, I enjoy it.
Rob

Zitat von Filigrana

1.7.1862 - 31.8.1871

1 Wegstunde = 4,8 km

Gewicht in Gramm

Dein Brief: über 2 Wegstunden bis 10 g/10 Rp

10 Rappen / 10 g < ??? Wegstunde?

20 rp/10g > ??? Wegstunde?

danka fur die hilfe

Rob

Hallo all!

Does anyone know where I can find the internal mail letter rates from 1854 to 1875?

I think I have the rate from Oct 1, 1854 as:
5 rappen per 1/2 loth - rayon I
10 rappen per 1/2 loth - rayon II
15 rappen per 1/2 loth - rayon III
registration would require doubling the letter rate

But, I do not know when this rate structure ends, nor do I know what the next rate structure is. If it is like many other systems, it will remove the distance part of the calculation.

I have a note that says new rate structure is July 1, 1862 - 10 centimes per 15 grams
Is that correct? And how long is it correct?

Danke,
Rob

Hallo!

Thank you for showing the interesting letter from Belgium to England. Here is another showing the same rate from 1864. I don't have much to add other than show the cover.

Rob

Hello Erdinger,

Thank you for posting this table.

I have the standard internal letter rates for July 1, 1849 to ??? Dec 31, 1861???
10 ctm per 10 g for no more 30 km distance
20 ctm per 10 g for longer than 30 km distance

But, what happens between those dates? Anyone know?

And, if I am wrong about the above, please feel free to correct me.
Rob

Hello all,

Answer to the above item was kindly provided by Thomas Matha.

Text from his email is below:

this is a cover from Bologna, Papal States to Woolen, Canton of Aargau,
Switzerland. It was prepaid 2 1/2 bajocchi to the Austrian border and
than carried via Milan (marking LT) to Aargau,

More details you can find in my recent book „International Mail crossing the Italian Peninsula 1815-1852“ what I recommend.

This is probably as much as I need to know about this item for now. After all, it is well before my normal area of research.
But, it was pretty. And it was only 5 $ US. And, I was curious.

Snow is melting, time to go outside and do farm work!
Rob

Zitat von Filigrana

Hallo Rob

ab 59 Sardischen Mailen bis 75/bis 6 g/8 Soldi

A.

Grazie!

8 soldi, Jan 1, 1819 - May 31, 1836 ?

Rob

Hallo,

Probably an easy question for someone.

Attached is a stampless folded letter from Bordighera to Genova.
Dated: May 26, 1824

Questions I have:
1. Is it correct that black markings are due markings and red are paid markings for Sardinien post at this time?
2. What is the rate listed here? I think it is 8 decimes, but I do not know what the rate is based off of. Number of sheets? Weight? Distance?
3. For bonus points - what was the active date range for this rate?

thank you for any help.
Rob

Zitat von bayern klassisch

Thurn & Taxis charged 2 kreuzer for the rural postman, who carried this letter from the last postoffice Reichelsheim to Lindenau, a village without any postoffice. Those 2 kreuzer didn´t stay in the purse of the postman, as many believe, but had to be transferred to the wallet of the prince of Thurn & Taxis.

Usually TT got 1 kreuzer from the receiver, when the letter was sent to a town or village with a postoffice, but when a rural postman was required, the amount was doubled.

Danke - this is a very clear explanation that makes sense. I appreciate it.
Rob

I think this one qualifies here.

Hessen-Darmstadt 2 x 15 cent rate per 1/2 ounce (Oct 1859-Dec 1867) - Bremen Treaty

N York 6 US Pkt Paid
Bremen 6 cts - surface
US 24 cts- packet & surface

The blue 2: I assume this is a delivery fee charged by Thurn and Taxis? What was the criteria for that amount? I assume in kruezers?

Pekin, Ills Sep 14 1865
N.York Sep 20
Cunard Scotia
Queenstown Sep 29
Frankfort - Darmstadt
unknown Oct 1 (verso)
Heppenheim Oct ?? (verso)
Reichelsheim Oct ?? (verso)

I have problems understanding Thurn and Taxis in the 1860's, so I do not mind additional thoughts.
Rob

Here is a double rate letter using Hamburg Treaty Mail to go from the U.S. to Switzerland.

Switzerland 2 x 19 cent rate per 1/2 ounce (Oct 1860-Dec 1867)

N. York Hamb Pkt Paid
32 over 16
Hamburg 12 cts - Hamburg packet
2 cts - Hamburg surface
10 cts - German transit
8 cts - Swiss transit
US 6 cts - surface

8 8 schillinge overland credit (can someone clarify this one for me more? I do not think I understand it quite well enough)

Routing:
Tompkinsville, NY Aug 4 1865
N. York Aug 5
HAPAG Teutonia
Hamburg Aug 18
Frankfort Aug 21
Heidelberg-Basel 22 Aug
Rheinfelden 22 Aug

Here is an unlikely routing to Italy.
Most of the time, US to Italy covers were routed via France. This one went via Bremen Treaty Mail at a rate that was only available in 1867. At present, I am only aware of four covers showing this rate from the US to Italy.

Italy 24 cent rate per 1/2 ounce (Feb 1867-Dec 1867)

Bremen Franco
21 (in red by blue 'Franco')
Bremen 11 cts - packet
1 ct surface
7 ct Union Transit
2 ct transit to Venice
US 3 cts - surface

1 ½ (red) 1.5 grote credit

Question: Could someone clarify my understanding of the 1.5 grote credit?

Route:
W.H.Newman & Co NY Nov 6, 1867
New York Nov 7
North German Lloyd Hansa
Southampton Nov 20
Bremen Nov 22
Innsbruck - Brenner Pass ??
Verona 25 Nov 67

2 in oval - I think this is the delivery number for the day Venice?

Brenner Pass railway opened on August 24, 1867, so I am guessing it was used here? But, I am not certain about it.

Last post here was 2016! So, I will add a new one. But, likely one of my last since the snow we got is melting and I'll need to get back to farming.

Wurttemburg 28 cent rate per 1/2 ounce (Sep 1861-Dec 1867)

N.York Br Pkt 7 Paid
PCM 5 cts - surface
2 cts - Belg. transit
US 5 cts - surface
16 cts - British pkt
Route:
Cincinnati, O Mar 24 (1865)
New York Mar 28
Boston (Mar 29)
Cunard Africa
Queenstown Apr 9
Aachen Apr 11
Postamt K Wurtt apr 12 (verso)
Stuttgart 12 Apr 65 (verso)
Klein-Sussen
12 Apr 1865 (verso)
Donzdorf 12 Apr (verso)

I do not want Ralph to feel that I am not willing to share a cover to Bavaria....

Here is a standard 28 cent rate via Prussian Closed Mail to Bavaria.

Bavaria 28 cent rate per 1/2 ounce (Sep 1861 - Dec 1867)
N.York Am Pkt 7 Paid
Prussia 5 cts - surface
2 cts - Belg transit
US 16 cts - British pkt
5 cts - surface

A Bendit & Bro Jun 23 1866
New York Jun 23
Inman City of Paris
Queenstown Jul 2
Aachen Jul 4
Fuerth Jul 6 (verso)

Guessing rail route as Aachen, Coln, Giessen, Frankfort, Aschaffenburg, Wurzburg, Furth - thanks to a nice 1866 rail map.

There are actually fair number of these Seligman, Bendit and Sohne correspondence covers out there. Some are nicer, some are ugly. I have never taken time to do the social philately side on this one, so if someone wants to...

Best,
Rob