Beiträge von robfaux

Hello all!

I have this stampless item from Chaux de Fonds to Paris for which I have not completely determined the rates. I must admit that I am not certain of them prior to the 4th period of rates from Switzerland to France.

It appears to be a double weight letter that was initially to be charged 4 decimes, but this was crossed out. Instead a charge for 8 decimes appears twice on the cover.

What caught my eye initially was the Morteau exhange office. I have been looking for inexpensive, but clear strikes of some of the less common exchange office markings and this serves my purpose for the time being.

Rob

Here is a 4th period item - just prior to the new postal convention.

It also shows a short payment with only a 20 centime adhesive. It is simpler since there was only the 40 rappen / centime rate from Switzerland to France. All 4 decimes were due and the 20 centimes were not applied to postal services.

Hope everyone is well.

Rob

Kevin,

Interesting item.

so, the rates in Switzerland to France were still variable in 1858 (period 3), which is why it is 35 ctms rather than 40.

Do you have a good summary as to how these rates were applied during the third period? I have yet to get that sorted out.

Ralph,

I have nothing like that - of course. But, it is nice to see that example.

Rob

Hello all,

I have recently managed to win this item at auction and I await its arrival with some anticipation.

This is an example of the 27 cent rate from the United States to the Netherlands (via England) effective from July of 1866 until the end of December 1867.

Question: has anyone seen ANY other examples of this rate during this rate period?

Prior to this, options for sending mail to Holland from the US were limited. Starting in 1849, a person could use British Open Mail and only pay for the US portion of the postage (this would be 5 cents or 21 cents depending on the contract the trans-Atlantic packet sailed under). The Open Mail rate was discontinued at the point this 27 cent rate was started.

French mail provided a 21 cent rate per 1/4 ounce (7.5 grams) starting in April of 1857 (which was still active in 1866/67).

Bremen had a 25 cent rate (per 1/2 ounce) August 1853-July 1857.

A direct mail rate via American Packet was started in October of 1866 for only 17 cents per 1/2 ounce and Bremen/Hamburg Mails introduced a new 18 cents per 1/2 ounce rate in February of 1867. So, while it was nice to be able to finally prepay the entire rate, it was not the best price for mailing long - though it did have the most sailings to take advantage of getting there faster.

Best,

Rob

PS this is a cross post with the US-Holland category. I am hopeful that by catching both ends of the the travel for this item I might see if others have found an item using this rate.

R

Hello all,

I have recently managed to win this item at auction and I await its arrival with some anticipation.

This is an example of the 27 cent rate from the United States to the Netherlands (via England) effective from July of 1866 until the end of December 1867.

Question: has anyone seen ANY other examples of this rate during this rate period?

Prior to this, options for sending mail to Holland from the US were limited. Starting in 1849, a person could use British Open Mail and only pay for the US portion of the postage (this would be 5 cents or 21 cents depending on the contract the trans-Atlantic packet sailed under). The Open Mail rate was discontinued at the point this 27 cent rate was started.

French mail provided a 21 cent rate per 1/4 ounce (7.5 grams) starting in April of 1857 (which was still active in 1866/67).

Bremen had a 25 cent rate (per 1/2 ounce) August 1853-July 1857.

A direct mail rate via American Packet was started in October of 1866 for only 17 cents per 1/2 ounce and Bremen/Hamburg Mails introduced a new 18 cents per 1/2 ounce rate in February of 1867. So, while it was nice to be able to finally prepay the entire rate, it was not the best price for mailing long - though it did have the most sailings to take advantage of getting there faster.

Best,

Rob

Of course I will ask! It is a pleasure to explore classic postal history with so many fine details.

But first, I must create some more of my own pages today!

Rob

Ralph,

I finally got back to looking at this collection. It is wonderful to see a different view of postal history during this period. I am still working on translating for my own understanding, so I am afraid I cannot give much feedback - but I will give any if I see anything.

I see there is some discussion that this would not be a good competitive exhibit as it is written up. I would agree with that assessment. But, I also think there have been changes (at least in the US) in attitude about exhibiting that might allow it. There are also some formatting tricks that might make this possible.

In the end, it does not matter. You are effectively sharing this collection with others. Danke!

Rob

It has taken me a long time to start exploring this part of the web site. It might take me even longer to read through the pages presented here! Thank you for the effort of putting this collection here for others to view - it is appreciated.

Now, I need many more hours in my day to read this. I am afraid it takes me a very long time to work out the translation! Maybe I get better with practice?

Best,

Rob

A post on my blog focusing on US to France mail in the 1860's is nearly complete. I would be happy to receive comments and criticisms if people have them.

Ralph,

Yes, you are correct about the 30. The stamps applied claim a 6th weight. I sent this item to be expertized for that reason. Certificate came back good. I have theories about this, but nothing provable.

Rob

Ralph and Martin,

Six cents are kept by the US for surface postage (2 times 3 cents). 48 cents are passed on to cover the British trans-Atlantic contract, the transit across the channel and the French mail transit. I suspect I will find it was a French steamer from Marseilles that gets it to Civitivecchia and then Rome. I'll try to get a full write up on here as a follow up post.

Rob

Danke Lulu,

I await a copy of Deneumostier's book in the mail!

Rob

Here is a later (1869) example of the rate shown by Lulu.

Did this rate run until the General Postal Union or was there a reduction prior.

Needless to say, I haven't seen many items from this period from Belgium to Italy, so not very good at answering for myself.

Rob

Andre and Ralph,

I have nothing to add that has not already been spoken of for the first item from US to Spain. I can only say that it must have gone through the UK to Spain as you suggest. I cannot account for the ship arrival date any better than you.

The second item. I believe you will find it is 3 cuartos due, not 3 reals. Similar item below to Barcelona.

Rob

Here is a page from my exhibit that was not there when I last posted to this thread. It is either a 5 times or 6 times the 15 cent rate from the US to France. Hope all are well and that those who celebrate the holiday season have enjoyed it.

Rob

New addition to the exhibit! Sorry, no scan of verso available yet, but I can tell you it has a Roma via di Mare marking.

Nice double 27 cent rate via French mail from US to Rome. I will very much enjoy writing this one up.

Rob

Ah yes, Sacramento. My brain automatically fills in San Francisco for that double circle postmark. San Francisco would be, of course, much more common to see in 1866 postmarks.
I apologize, but I am out of practice reading Deutsch, so I may miss some things.
I agree with bayernjager about the Hamburg Packet marking as I have had a chance to view my notes and find a match. It is too bad it is impossible to get a date out of it. However, it seems odd to me that the center of that marking is so neatly obscured.
I am also wondering about some residual black postmark fragments to the right of the third stamp. Since I do not have the cover in hand, nor am I the best expert for determining if stamps originate or not, I will not make any claim to know if they are original to the cover or not. I will only say that I was a little nervous about it even before bayerjager's comments. But, with the scan issues at the bottom, I said nothing knowing I might not be seeing what you are seeing when you have it in front of you.
I will try to look again later in the weekend.
Rob

Ralph,
You show an interesting puzzle.
Quick question: is the doubling of "North America" actually on the cover, or is it something that happened with the scan?
I am trying to match up what I can see of the red US marking with what I recall, but I guess I'll need to be where my notes are to figure it out further. If what I see is correct, there is the full word "Packet" at the right and "PAID" in the center. The "3" is quite clear. That would be the 3 cents credit to Bremen for Bremen surface mail with the US paying the sailing packet - whatever it might be.
Is it possible that Bremen would use the HAPAG steamers to forward mail late in the month? I have no evidence of this, so I can't say. However, the San Francisco June 8 date would be consistent with the May 6 sailing from Bremen (and May 22 reported arrival). With no directive to go by steamer, this would have gone overland, taking rail as far as it was completed and coach otherwise. Probably the central route through Kansas via St Louis and west through Colorado.
I am surprised that the San Francisco marking and the carrier marking are so far apart in time unless it was forwarded on by steamer - but it is still a bit slow. the street address on the envelope is consistent with a carrier marking for New Haven.
I hope this helps some.
Rob

It is still the farming season for me, so I am afraid I will make a short post and disappear again for a while. However, I was able to acquire a new item for my collection and exhibit this Spring and I thought I would share my exhibit page. I always welcome comments and corrections because it is important to me to be correct in my descriptions.
Below is an item from the United States to Switzerland that was paid only to the border between the DOPV / GAPU and Switzerland.
As a side note. I was able to show my 24 cent 1861 US postal history exhibit at the APS Stampshow in Omaha, Nebraska a week ago. I was surprised and pleased to receive the Grand award for the multiple frame open competition. This is something I don't think I expected I would ever do.
Best,
Rob

Welcome Ole!
From one who pretty much MUST write English to be understood! I've found this to be a wonderful forum and have felt welcomed. I think I've only been involved for a year?

I think the only thing I have problem with is the very large number of threads. It can be hard to figure out where to go to be on topic. But, that is a small problem.
Best,
Rob