"stampless letter" 1860er von Panama nach San Francisco

grisuhh62

Hallo,

ich bin auf einen Brief gestoßen, der nach meiner Meinung von Panama (Ich kann im Stempel etwas wie 1863 erkennen) nach San Francisco gelaufen ist (Datum lese ich 28, April 1864). Den Stempel von San Francisco kann ich aber im "AMERICAN STAMPLESS COVER CATALOG", Fourth Edition nicht finden. Ich dachte, und vor allem hoffte, es wäre ein Schiffspostbrief. Davon bin ich aber ab. Also, was ja auch möglich ist, ist er vielleicht über Land gegangen.

Auf jeden Fall ist als Ankunftsstempel dieser von San Francisco abgeschlagen worden, den ich ums verrecken nicht finden kann. Vielleicht kann mir jemand einen Tipp oder Hinweis geben. Vielleicht suche ich im CATALOG auch an der falschen Stelle.

Jedenfalls hier der Brief (Ich habe nur einen Scan der Vorderseite):

Der Scan stammt aus einem Angebot eines dänischen Internet-Auktionshauses. Und ich möchte gerne mhr über die/den Stempel wisse, damit ich entscheiden kann, ob er von Interesse sein kann.

Mit viel Hoffnung

Jürgen

robfaux

Jurgen,

I am afraid I see this too late to really help you! I am sorry I missed it.

I assume this came from the British postal system as an origin. I see the 1/- which might be consistent with a prepaid cost to Panama (I need to check the rate). The 10 would indicate 10 cents due in San Francisco. The double ring San Francisco mark is the common date stamp used during this period.

This is probably 1863 (both date stamps).

I am guessing it went via West Indies mail to Panama and then crossed the Isthmus and was picked up by the Pacific Mail Steamship on its way to San Francisco. So, I believe it would be a ship letter at that point.

It would be useful to see the reverse and or the date line of the contents to be more certain.

I have a good friend who could probably be more certain about San Francisco markings as he specializes in it.

Best,

Rob

grisuhh62

Hi Rob,

yes, You are right - You are too late.

I have posted this question also at an american forum and these are the "answers":

Hi Juergen - it is an incoming steamship letter. There is probably a Chile origin postmark on the back. It was paid 1 shilling (the red crayon 1/- marking) for the British PMSC steamship to Panama. There is a Panama transit marking under the SF postmark. It was then carried by US steamship from Panama to SF and marked 10 cents due for the steamship rate. The SF marking is an ordinary SF circular date stamp used also on domestic mail.

This cancel and four other double circle postmarks where use in San Francisco for 16 years, 1861 to 1876, They can be found in John H. Williams California Town Postmarks 1849-1935.

Below are phone pics of the proper page showing the 5 double circle used in this time frame. The L measurement is shown by an orange line.

I'm guessing the postmark on your cover is either SAF-600 or SAF-610.

Forgot to mention the measurements are in mm

Maybe the answers are interesting for You too.

I have bought this letter, so I can show the scans of it.

I hope these are enough information. But I will answer any question (if I can).

Jürgen

robfaux

Jurgen,

Danke! It is interesting. Thank you for sharing the information.

Rob