Frankreich ---> Altitalienische Staaten

Hallo Laurent,

wundervolles Stück italienischer Geschichte - ich denke, er lief nach Neapel. Danke fürs Zeigen dieses Schmankerls.

Zitat von Laurent

Hallo Ralph, Danke!
Ich habe einen anderen Brief, der in Messine im Juli 1860 angekommen ist zur gleichen Zeit wie der Eingang in die Stadt der Truppen Garibaldis ("Zug der Tausend")     ! Ich werde ihn zeigen.

Hallo Laurent,

wunderbar - ich freue mich sehr!

Hello everyone!

While this is not much to compare to Laurent's item in post #2, I can share something that qualifies for this topic!

Here is a fully prepaid letter from Espalion, France to Mantova, Lombardy mailed on Nov 19, 1855. This was under the postal agreement for mail via Sardinia that began on July 1, 1851 and concluded Dec 31, 1857. The 1 franc in postage was paid by five 20 centime stamps.

According to the back stamps, it seems the postal directive written on the front was followed: "par Clermont, Lyon et Turin"

Espalion Nov 19, 1855

Clermont-Ferrand Nov 20

Clermont A Paris Nov 20

Lyon Nov 21

Lyon A Marseille Nov 21

Marseille Nov 22

Mantova Nov 27

It seems to me that the five day transit from Marseille to Mantova is a bit long. If anyone can help identify possible reasons why, I would appreciate it.

One possible issue was an earth tremor centered at Castellane on November 23 - but I think it is too far off the path and too late to actually cause a problem.

It could certainly be a weather problem in crossing the Alps.

It is likely I will never know for sure, but it is fun to search and see what might be the cause.

And couple of small questions that is mostly curiosity on my part.

1. It appears to be addressed "O' Mantoue" What would the "O'" mean?

2. The Mantova "T" in circle - does it have a specific meaning?

Best,

Rob

And here is another cover from the same correspondence to Louis Sartoretti, lawyer (avocat)

This time, the letter is sent from Montpellier, France on Feb 9, 1857 under the same postal agreement. 1 franc per each 7.5 grams with the same rate paid or unpaid. This one only has one 20 centime stamp, which is identified as "insufficiently stamped." (timbres insuffisant)

The unpaid rate from Lombardy to France was 25 kreuzer per 1/2 loth. So, this item was rated as unpaid and 25 kreuzer were due to be paid by the lawyer so he could see the contents.

This route is simpler.

Montpellier Feb 9, 1857

Marseille FEb 10

Gap Feb 11

Mantova Feb 13

Arr di Notte (night time arrival)

This one took only three days to go from Marseille to Mantova, which is what I was expecting to be the normal travel time.

A couple of questions if someone happens to know.

1. The scribble to the left of the "25" - can anyone tell what it says? My guess is that it is some form of saying "amount due?"

2. Am I correct in assuming the Arr di Notte marking was applied in Mantova and that it was applied to explain why the arrival date was Feb 13, but it was not likely delivered on Feb 14?

I hope everyone is having a good weekend.

Rob

Hello all!

I wonder if anyone knows how the postage for the two letters I show above was split between France, Sardinia and Lombardy?

I should probably just go read the convention... but if anyone knows right away, that would be nice.

Best,

Rob

Hi,

the scribble on the second letter is.

16 (= 12 Kr France + 4 Kr Sardinia)

+9 (Austrian interior fee for more than 20 miles)

= 25 KrCM which was the normal tariff for letters from Austria to France via Sardinia or Switzerland since 1851.

it was unsufficiantly paid - and this payment was ignored according to the Austro-French treaty from 1844.

the first letter is paid to destination with 1 Franc - normal rate France-Austria via Sardinia or Switzerland since 1851. Via Germany the rate was 1.20 Francs.

Best regards

Gerald

Laurent and Gerald,

Merci and danke!

I did look at the scribble and thought I saw a "16" more than once, but did not see the "9." The rate breakdown is very much appreciated as is clarification on the rest of the address. I've not seen à as a capital letter before. I should not have let that confuse me - but I did.

I should still read the convention.

Best,

Rob

Hi Rob,

you are not allone... the Austrian writing of taxes was very strange and we Austrians have our problems, too.

Best wishes and congratulations to these great letters

Gerald

once again: I have forgotten your question concerning the "T" of Mantova on the reverse of your 1st letter: It´s not a "T" it´s "1" and the whole marking is: "Distribuzione 1" - from the mail carrier in Mantova.

All the best

Gerald

Gerald,

Distribuzione 1! Ok. This sort of thing will cause me problems less often as I see more examples. I have only seen a few examples of the Mantova distribution markings so far and my brain just did not see it.

If I don't ask when I am unsure, I won't learn.

Many postal services have difficult to understand credit and debit markings at this time. That is why I did not completely discount the "16/9" marking. I could tell it should mean something - but what?

Next time, I will be confused by something different - but not this particular thing.

Danke.

Rob

No problem, dear Rob!

This forum is here to help! And in so many cases I am glad to get help by my friends!

best regards

Gerald

Here is another item - this time to Venetia.

Short paid with only a 40 centime stamp.

With my new knowledge, I can now say how the 16 kreuzers are due.

80 centimes rate for unpaid mail

less 40 centimes paid

40 centimes due converts to 16 kreuzer due.

Rob